Curse

imaginary friend · Dec 23, 2005, 02:12 AM // 02:12

I only used the vampirics when i was low on health or when enemy was low on health...... so don't just spam gaze and touch because its an energy drainer

Plastiqq · Dec 23, 2005, 02:33 AM // 02:33

ahhh i seeeeeeeeeeee.

:]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

FeuerFrei · Dec 23, 2005, 07:35 AM // 07:35

i would switch in insidious parasite for mark of pain....unless ur targeting casters...

appoc · Dec 23, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Plastiqq
Coul you make an update of the build, Im also about to test a necrobuild and I think there would be best and easiest for everyone to comment and see the build that's the one that you've came up with and is "up to date".

btw. I, back when I was playing gw, battled against several N/W which did very well. One of them even used Summon Fiends, and damn he got alot of them, he pwned.

My suggestion:
-Sever Artery
-Gash
-Some other good Sword-skill
-Vamp. Touch
-Spiteful spirit
-Demonic Flesh
-Plauge Touch
-Rez sig.

As you see Im into Damaging

But donno how this build is... What do you think?

LaserLight · Dec 23, 2005, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Never played the breed, but secondary Warriors are meant more for spamming Energy-based attack skills and dealing a lot of damage quickly than a normal Warrior can usually put out without all those buffs. I say run with that and go:

11 Swordsmanship
10 Curses (12 w/scar + Minor)
8 Tactics
6 Soul Reaping (7 w/Minor)

Hamstring
Wild Blow
Savage Slash
Enfeeble
Insidious Parasite
"Watch Yourself!"
Plague Signet [E]
ReSiggy

This gives you several ways to hinder your foe, with two of a primary Warrior's most hated conditions at your fingertips. Wild Blow lets you get rid of evasion stances, which will also help any Rangers or other melee-ists who just happen to be shooting/swinging at your target. Savage Slash gives you a way of shutting down something ugly your target is planning on casting. Having had to suffer through it before, I can safely say that nothing sucks worse than helplessly beating on someone about to cast a gargantuan spell in your face, just because you forgot to bring an interrupt.

Plague Signet is basically a throwaway Elite (sounds strange, doesn't it?) because nothing else seemed to fit right, but in the right circumstances, it can be devastating. A Virulence spell cast at the wrong target suddenly becomes the opposing team's worst nightmare, and any Rangers in the area will quickly learn to leve you be with the Melandru's Arrows and Poison Arrows an other stuff you can happily shove straight back down their throats.

The real key, though, is Insidious Parasite. This is what lets this guy kill primary Warriors at will. Insidious Parasite is not a healing spell for this Meleemancer - it's a potent DPS-booster. Any time that Weakened, Crippled Warrior lands a hit on you - or anyone else - , you steal 17 health from him. That's a 34-HP swing your direction, on top of whatever damage you're already doing. And should the target stop attacking in order to conserve his HP, well...mission accomplished, no? This plus the fact that you've got "Watch Yourself!" to bolster your armor levels and Enfeeble to cut the enemy Warrior's/Ranger's damage, and you can toy with any physical fighter in the game. At least, on a level playing field. You will, of course, have to run for cover if the Warrior has his own pet Smiting Monk to buff his plated behind from here to Mars, just like everyone else. But outside those circumstances, I think the above is a good place to start if you're looking for a competitive Meleemancer.

Undead Preacher · Dec 23, 2005, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Life transfer, life siphon >>>> MAX regen for you, MAX degen for enemy
Shadow Strike, Vampric Gaze>>>> Puts them well below 50% health
Adrenaline Based Skills>>>> finish them off with MELEE attacks!!!!!

Plastiqq · Dec 23, 2005, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Appoc and Undead Preacher, you both have a very nice idea.

I am going to work on putting this together, I will post it in the next 5-10 minutes.

Plastiqq · Dec 23, 2005, 11:56 PM // 23:56

OK.

So here is what I have up-to-mo-fookin'-date.

Blood Magic - 12+4
Curses - 8+2
Swordsmanship - 10

1. Shadow Strike
2. Vampiric Gaze
3. Spiteful Spirit
4. Sever Artery
5. Gash
6. Final Thrust
7. Demonic Flesh
8. Ressurection Signet

I also like the idea of Plague Touch but I am not sure where to include that...

Tell me what you think!

LaserLight · Dec 24, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51

There is absolutely no synergy between the Blood and Sword skills in your build...one half of the bar is trying to be a ranged caster, the other half is trying to be a heavy swordsman.

Your Blood skills are expensive and situational; Shadow Strike is mediocre at best and lousy at worst, and spamming it and Vampiric Gaze will drain your energy bar in a hurry. Plus, while you're sitting there spamming spells, you're not building up adrenaline for your battery of sword strikes. Which is another thing.

Why are you using Adrenal skills when you should have plenty of energy to hack away with Energy skills? That way you don't need to build up Adrenaline, and can actually deal a much greater amount of damage/disruption in a shorter time than an Adrenal Warrior. You're giving up the primary advantage a Warrior secondary gets in melee in order to conserve power for spells which don't really do much for you in the first place.

Also, though it looks awesome on the surface, and I have used it before (before I knew about it, anyways), Demonic Flesh is fairly useless. it's a very situational skill since any damage you take while Demonized transfers back to you when it goes away, which means that you could suffer an unexpected, and fatal, health drop in the middle of a fight. Instead, you might want to focus on just one Necromancer support line, Blood or Curses, and find a few defensive tactics skills/stances to help you survive.

Undead Preacher · Dec 24, 2005, 02:11 AM // 02:11

just my opinion, but thats a pretty sketchy build, to spread apart between way different skills......... If your going to go BLOOD max it out and forget about curses, or vice-versa.... keep swordsmanship but concentrate on 1 necromancer skill..... as a meleemancer your better off with blood cuz it will keep u alive as you do dmg!!!!!! the eilte LIFE TRANSFER is great for meleemancer, keeps you alive and drains them wicked, especially with life siphion.... just seems like you could make build a lot more effective if you went with BLOOD & Swordsmanship..... put the left over points into soul reaping!

Plastiqq · Dec 24, 2005, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

just my opinion, but thats a pretty sketchy build, to spread apart between way different skills......... If your going to go BLOOD max it out and forget about curses, or vice-versa.... keep swordsmanship but concentrate on 1 necromancer skill..... as a meleemancer your better off with blood cuz it will keep u alive as you do dmg!!!!!! the eilte LIFE TRANSFER is great for meleemancer, keeps you alive and drains them wicked, especially with life siphion.... just seems like you could make build a lot more effective if you went with BLOOD & Swordsmanship..... put the left over points into soul reaping!

Will do!

LaserLight · Dec 24, 2005, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Again I ask, if you're going this route, why are you using swords at all? Transfer/Siphon is fun, I admit, but it has very little to do with melee combat - it's a spellcaster's tool. If you want a Meleemancer like the ones that shredded the IWAY team, you need to get skills that work with and augment the sword skills, and sword skills that work with and augment your Necromancer skills, not just a few Blood spells and a few Sword skills that just so happen to take up residence on the same skill bar. You don't have to use my idea, but you should at the least look at your skills and ask "what do these skills do to support/better each other?" If the answer is "nada" then you might need a new build.

Undead Preacher · Dec 24, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Again I ask, if you're going this route, why are you using swords at all? Transfer/Siphon is fun, I admit, but it has very little to do with melee combat - it's a spellcaster's tool. If you want a Meleemancer like the ones that shredded the IWAY team, you need to get skills that work with and augment the sword skills, and sword skills that work with and augment your Necromancer skills, not just a few Blood spells and a few Sword skills that just so happen to take up residence on the same skill bar. You don't have to use my idea, but you should at the least look at your skills and ask "what do these skills do to support/better each other?" If the answer is "nada" then you might need a new build.

MAYBE you don't understand the concept of a meleemancer

Its a spellcasting warrior! Thats why he's a necromancer primary.... and as far as life transfer and life siphon they are absolutely perfect for this build, not only do they do alot of dmg but they keep you alive seeing that you have no self-heal w/out putting points in tactics and your armor isn't as effective as warrior.....nothing wrong with casting spells while u hack away with sword, works VERY well~

LaserLight · Dec 25, 2005, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Preacher, the point I'm trying to make is that aside from a few brief moments of regen, those Blood spells do nothing to augment the effectiveness of the Warrior aspects of the build, and the Warrior aspects do nothing to augment the effectiveness of your Blood skills. You are playing two completely separate half-builds in this character, neither of which are at full strength. if you want Transfer/Siphon, then by God, play as a standardized spellcaster, with all the advantages that brings. If you want to play a true Meleemancer, then find the skills that make you the match of a Warrior in battle. Enfeeble, Insidious Parasite, Spiteful Spirit, Wild Blow, anything that either augments your own attacks, degenerates the foe's, or does something that makes it difficult to match against you. Necromancers thrive on chaos and disruption; why are you abandoning this goal simply because of your secondary profession choice?

Victory Gaint · Dec 25, 2005, 03:12 AM // 03:12

spread dm/blood/swordsmanship points evenly (8 swords) and use...

vamp touch
vamp gaze
sever art
gash
life siphon
res
vile touch
virulence

Vini, Vidi, Velcro~ I came, I saw, I stuck around.

Undead Preacher · Dec 25, 2005, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Preacher, the point I'm trying to make is that aside from a few brief moments of regen, those Blood spells do nothing to augment the effectiveness of the Warrior aspects of the build, and the Warrior aspects do nothing to augment the effectiveness of your Blood skills. You are playing two completely separate half-builds in this character, neither of which are at full strength. if you want Transfer/Siphon, then by God, play as a standardized spellcaster, with all the advantages that brings. If you want to play a true Meleemancer, then find the skills that make you the match of a Warrior in battle. Enfeeble, Insidious Parasite, Spiteful Spirit, Wild Blow, anything that either augments your own attacks, degenerates the foe's, or does something that makes it difficult to match against you. Necromancers thrive on chaos and disruption; why are you abandoning this goal simply because of your secondary profession choice?

My original build was a Meleemancer until I turned into a 55hp i-necro, my point is simple.... those skills work perfect with this build.... the difference between them and skills like SS is that the blood skills will keep you ALIVE... SS is great... I use it to SOLO UW with my 55 but necros have shitty armor compared to tanks..... so during melee combat theres nothing better than stealing there life........for one it causes dmg to them, and 2 it consistantly heals you!

appoc · Dec 25, 2005, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Plastiqq: Checked your build, but now afterwards I think it's like what LaserLight is saying, theres no synergy at all, other half is range and the other is melee...
I think Ive already tested this (without Spiteful though) and it didnt go that well...

Something I just came up with.
Preacher said that Life Syphon and Life transfer gives Max HP-degen, and I think that sounds very good and thought of changing some for casting those 2 first, then do Andrenal attacks.

Something like this maybe?

<N/W-Meleemancer V2>
1. Life transfer
2. Life Syphon
3. Vamp. touch
4. Sever Artery
5. Gash
6. Final Thrust
7. Demonic Flesh
8. Ressurection Signet

If you are attacked first, cast DEmonic flesh, otherwise cast Life Transfer + Syphon first, then Demonic flesh, then go attack with andrenal attacks, and once in a while Vamp touch as healing and damage.

How does this sounds?

Im not too good with warriors, (well, cant say that Im good with anything since this was the reason for me to quit ^^), so I wonder, is there any better warrior-weapon-type that is better suited for this kind of build than sword? as this is for dealing damage, not tank, well, tank is a good thing, but, nvm you know what Im saying

-----EDIT:-----

Read a bit about N and W skills now and thought, if it's N/W with sword, and Sever Artery, it gives bleeding, a condition, right? Then Take out the Life Transfer [E] and put in Virulence [E] as giving more conditions, and Plauge touch, Faintheartedness or Insidious Parasite instead of Life Syphon, since it wont do something major by itself?

<N/W-Melemancer V2.1.1>
1. Virulence
2. Plauge touch, Faintheartedness or Insidious Parasite
3. Vamp touch
4. Sever Artery
5. Gash
6. Final Thrust
7. Demonic Flesh
8. Ressurection Signet

How does this sounds like?

As going N/W axe-user you could put out the Sword skills and put in Cyclone Axe, Swift chop and maybe Penetrating blow?

<N/W-Meleemancer V2.2.1>
1. Life Transfer
2. Life Syphon
3. Vamp Touch
4. Cyclone Axe
5. Swift Chop
6. penetrating blow?
7. Demonic Flesh
8. Ressurection Signet

how does this one sounds like?

-----EDIT 2:-----

Dam, my sword-build didnt work out well, kinda spread the attribute-types xD didnt think about that

well hmm, I think Demonic Flesh is "a must" as Meleemancer... so blood is also a must, then I dont know if you should skip the thoughts about " Faintheartedness or Insidious Parasite" --> Curses or Virulence --> Death (maybe fail as going for a attribute JUST for 1 skill?) cant find any other suitable death-skills, maybe Horror/Fiend + Blood of the Master? or might it become a weak at melee then? I think so.

hmm, maybe keep the thoughts about Faintheartedness and Insidious Parasite (curses) and add spitful spirit then?

<N/W-Meleemancer V2.1.2>
1. Spitful Spirit
2. Faintheartedness or Insidious Parasite
3. Vamp touch
4. Sever Artery
5. Gash
6. Final Thrust
7. Demonic Flesh
8. Ressurection Signet

I dont know if this is good, but better than V2.1.1 at least

or even the first one with Life Transfer + Syphon might be better; since you could concentrate on 2 attributes (Sword + Blood, 3 with SR) instead of 3 (Sword + blood + curse, 4 with SR)?

---Mini-edit:---
Some thoughts...
Some Meleemancer with the tactics-skills: Riposte or Deadly Riposte would also be interesting...
Maybe less andrenal skills on Sword-based character by adding Hundred Blades and also more damage?

Any suggestions?

pagansaint · Dec 25, 2005, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Hmmm, alot of good discussion, alot of interesting ideas. A few single minded, single target oriented ideas also. Some of which, from my experiance trying everything I could combine and attempt to synergize to MAKE this combo work well, don't work very well as robust, able to handle multiple situations builds.

Life Transfer is a great regen and degen tool, cheap, easy to max out degen and then some with in combination with other skills, but has one very major and glaring downfall for PvP Melee Mancer use... Recharge time. 30 seconds.
Very nice for single target oriented fighting, but does not cut it if the fight lasts longer than 12 seconds and/or a healing breeze is cast on target.

Shadow Strike is another weapon with great possibilities, if you only want to take something to half health. After that you are spending 10 energy for a longer recharge and slow casting Flare.

Sever Artery to Gash combo, considered necessary as bread and butter for sword warriors, works great for 4v4 warriors, but as a Necro primary, you have MUCH better skills to use in that slot. And no, deep wound is NOT necessary to kill anything. Especially as a Blood Melee Mancer, your objective is to cause 10 degen and then start laying into the target with you weapon, sword preferably and cause even more DPS.

Vampiric Touch, energy hog, small return for way too much energy on an already strained pool. Offense or stealth health steals would work much better. Strip Enchantment, as long as you have an enchantment somewhere to work with, you have health. And a good bit of it too.

What are you trying to accomplish with a Blood Melee Mancer? To cause some irritation with mass castings of -3 degen and some random conditions? Or to select a target and cause the absolute MOST damage per second you can?

Deep Wound is a spike skill, best used by Warriors, Rangers, and Elementalists. Damage per second is something a Melee Mancer can become king of if they put their mind to the problem at hand. What combo of skills does the most damage over the shortest amount of time?

Here is a build I've used and had used against me before, not common, hell I've only seen it a couple times other than when I ran it, and one was my brother.

Blood: 12+3+1
Sword: 11
Soul Reaping 4+1
Tactics: 5 (have a req 5 tactics +1 Blood 10% shield)

Sever Artery
Life Transfer
Order of Pain
Flurry
Final Thrust
Res Signet // Strip Enchantment // Life Siphon
Blood Renewel
Vampiric Touch // Strip Enchantment (depends upon what I am seeing)

Orders may be hard to use, but when used correctly they can put your entire team's damage from manageable to over-powering. And in some cases a single player's damage from manageable to over-powering.

Sever and Life Transfer gives max degen, Order of Pain adds more damage to your attacks, Flurry gives you 5, maybe 6 attacks during Order of Pain. Final Thrust, well you should know how to use this

Use Blood Renewel and then Vampiric Touch to regain the lost health, then halfway through Blood Renewel, use the LT/OP/Flurry combo. Blood Should expire right after the combo is done giving you a good sized lump of health.

I much, MUCH prefer an axe/death/curses build. But insofar as twirling a sword goes, that pretty much takes the cake for me skill wise.

appoc · Dec 26, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

As Pegansaint above here says that althrouh you already get Max Degen by Life Siphon and Life Transfer, the Sever Artery is for no use, maybe adding other more high Direct Damage-skills (sword based) instead, maybe to conpensate the delay on Life Transfer by switching it to Hundred Blades instead?

darthmiho · Dec 26, 2005, 03:47 AM // 03:47

I have read over the thread and while I seem to be leaning towards the latest build that was posted (the one with order of pain). There is one thing i'm still pondering with regards to this build idea. Since you're acting as a warrior, what sort of mods for whatever weapon you use for this build? Be it sword or axe. I could be really far off on this issue, when the best weapon mod for the job would be a general purpose 15^50 if you can get it, but I might not, if we're running a warrior build, we should have an idea of what type of equipment to use for it.